SPEAKER_00 0:00

Anytime you have three losses in a row, you're out of that game. That's and then it's history. So you now you get it? Yes. Three high bets. Yeah. Low bets don't mean a thing. That's they're throwaway bets. Anytime you lose three high bets in a row, you're out. Anytime you are no longer winning at a rate of two out of three of your high bets, you're out. Now, let me emphasize too. Don't be chicken about making the high bets. When the conditions indicate that you should make a high bet, go ahead and make it. Yes. Well, that's a good question. Uh pardon? Okay, generally, in a given shoe, how many high bets are you going to make? Okay, with five or six players in the game, you're going to get in about 12 rounds. Okay, how many high bet situations are there? Or in stated otherwise, how many high cards are there? There are four nines, sixteen tens, and two aces. Two high aces, they're two low aces. That's 22 cards. That leaves 30 uh cards that are low bets. 22 that are high bets, 30 that are low pets. That's roughly a three to two ratio. Or 60% low, 40% high. Okay, 40% of uh 12 is uh would be exactly 48 uh or uh 4.8. So five, you should be getting five high bets. And it's a good question because if you're not getting roughly five high bets, say you're only getting two high bets per shoe on the average. Now I wouldn't quit after the first shoe if I have been doing well, but if I go through two shoes and I've only gotten four bets high bets in for those two shoes, then I would leave that game. Uh it's just not a good game to be in. And there are so many wonderful games available. So many tables, so many casinos. There are 73, 74 casinos here in uh Las Vegas. Soon to be more, more opening. And now when a new one opens, uh it it opens with a hundred new tables, a hundred new black. So the the availability of the uh tables is greater than ever. Uh remember your stop loss, be guided by your record of achievement with your high bets. Don't violate your stop loss. Now I say don't violate your stop loss, I do myself, occasionally. If I'm in a double-down situation or in a surefire split situation that would actually take me beyond my stop loss, if I lose, I do go for it. If I have an excellent double down, say 9, 10, or 11, that I know the dealer has a bad hand, high cards are running, uh, I will double down on that. Even though it means it even though if I lose I I've exceeded my stop loss. In that case, I will do it. I don't always, well, you know, we MBJ players, whether on the MBJ level or the advanced level, we do not automatically split aces. I do split aces if highs are running. Of course I do. And uh if that would take me beyond my stop loss losing them, so be it. Okay, so much yes. The uh well stop loss is uh uh if I lose the twelve uh high chips, of course, uh that's disaster time. I've uh reached definitely reach the stop loss. I never have done that. Never. My stop loss, my well, it's not really a stop loss, it's when I leave the table. I leave the table departure, right. When I uh lose three high bets in a row, or when I reach that point where I'm no longer winning at a rate of two out of three of the high bets. High bets only, that's all we care about. Yes. That's all right, Mark, I'll come back. Yes. But I will uh I don't I wouldn't keep it going through three shoes. I'm interested in what happened in the past shoe, the immediate past shoe. Now if we're lucky enough to uh be able to sit through uh six, seven, or eight shoes. Well, we've won so much money, we're already beyond the thousand dollars, uh playing at this level, well beyond a thousand dollars. But this is the departure indicator, and I d don't violate that. Three losses, I'm gone. No longer winning at that ratio, I'm gone. Uh seeking another table immediately. Now, whether I'm with my students or alone, I tend to play one type of game. I'm if I'm out to play first base, I'll play first base. I'm attuned to first base. I'm thinking in terms of first base. I don't want to jump back and forth on first to third, first to third, uh, because it's a whole different uh mental uh preparation, a whole different mental attitude playing third base. So uh what I've described, of course, is strictly first base play. Yes.

unknown 5:56

Yeah, how many bets in a row, uh how many low bets in a row would you have before you left? Like if you saw five or six at the roll.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Well, just as this gentleman in green asked, uh how many bets, high bets should we get? We should get five high bets per uh round, five high bets per shoe. Now, if we're not getting that many, if uh we're only getting two, then all the rest, we would be getting ten low bets. We're not interested in the low bets one way or another. We don't care really whether we win or lose. It's the high bets that we're after. The high bets are what are going to pay for the bacon and uh give us a cheery ride home. Yes. Yes, absolutely. The question is this at a nickel table? Always at a nickel table. Uh when you get to be high rolling, wealthy uh uh success rates, then by all means go to uh $25 table and bet uh $25 for your low bet and uh uh $6,700 for your high bet, $670 black chips. Your hand may shake a little as you're putting it out, but yes. Yes, Mark.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Uh going back to his question, if you do have something like four or five six low bet losses in a row, would that indicate the game is starting to turn the dollars?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

No. No. We only guide on uh the high bets. But if we d are not getting enough of the high bets in, that's a good indication that it's not a worthwhile game. A game is no longer worthwhile staying. You're losing money staying in a game where where you don't get any enough high bets. Two ways to lose money and not winning your high bets and not getting enough of your high bets. Okay. Yes. Absolutely. I want uh oh I can hear. Why can't the round? I have poor hearing. Uh yeah, it's unfortunate he's everyone's facing me. Uh repeat the question.

unknown 8:06

Are you worried about how many players?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Number of players. Number of players in selecting a table. I like uh four or five other players to be in the game because I like to see uh I like to see a lot of chips. I a lot of uh a lot of cards. I like to see a lot of cards to know how everything is going. Uh that situation that Ellis described uh just before that sumptuous banquet, uh that was a very unusual case uh where he observed one single player in a game who had caught a blackjack and he saw um uh an ace and a ten, he saw that the dealer had a pair of tens. Okay, an ideal situation that you know a high card is coming. What came? A deuce. A deuce. A boy, his heart must have sunk when he saw that deuce having just put down a hundred dollar bill, but then his uh whole countenance lit up when it was followed by a nine. Wow! And knowing high cards are running. Wonderful. Uh I'll be telling that story to my grandchildren. Yeah, uh the number of players definitely does matter. Now, personally, when I'm here alone, I prefer playing third base. Frequently, I end up as the only player in the game. One by one, the other players get up and leave as they lose. When uh finally I am alone with the dealer, I have to switch to third to first base. No choice. You can't play uh third base uh head to head with the dealer. But the d the uh shoe is still clumped. You haven't reached a stop loss, and stop loss is very meaningful at third base. I literally physically switch over to first base at that point and start playing. You can't you see the last card every time the uh the uh shoe is still highly clumped. You're you are seeing the last card, so you can continue to play. And why not? You continue to play as long as you're winning. Now, keeping a record at third base, we don't keep a record. We don't need to keep a record. We have an automatic record with our stacks of chips, right? So uh we start keeping our record and we play as long as we're winning. We play until we have a table departure indication. Then we're gone. Now, when we switch over, uh we don't put our whole uh stack on the line, our all our winnings up to that point. We may be a thousand dollars ahead. Uh but as soon as we reach the table departure indication with our record that we're keeping, and I urge you to keep start doing this, then we leave the game. Now frankly, I find this is one of the greatest single weaknesses of my students when I take them. They almost never, on their own, keep a record. They practically never do. Uh I constantly pride them. Sometimes I do it for them. Sometimes standing there, I do it uh right for them. I just keep the record and then I point it out to them. How do we stand? Tell me. And uh now uh one funny thing that frequently occurs, uh I bet with the students. Uh they're playing first base. When I see, I always have a handful of black chips in my hand. Whenever I see an ideal situation, three or four high cards ending the previous round, I jump in and bet with the uh student. Well, on one occasion on my last trip, a situation like that did come up. Three or four high cards ended the round. My student put up a high bet. I immediately put a black chip on top of his, he immediately put another green chip, but two other students standing off on the side watching immediately jumped in. Oh Christ. Yeah, the uh pit bot's nose. We won the hand and we all got up and walked away. The pit boss said, what the hell is going on here? And I said, just intuition. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we got away with it. Yes, yes, Don. Right. Well, first of all, I hold back the tears. Uh, and I get control of my emotions, and I always think to myself, uh, now at that point I've gotten that stiff card and uh wrecked my hand, uh, shattered my dreams, but the uh dealer hasn't yet gotten her second card. So I watch very closely, very intently to see exactly what the dealer gets. Now, any time I'm in a situation where I know the dealer has me beaten and taking a hit would break me, then of course I'm considering surrender. I surrender uh quite a bit when I'm in a uh casino that permits it. Not quite a bit. I actually that's an exaggeration. I frequently exaggerate. Uh but uh uh no I will in a situation like that take use surrender on my high bets only, of course. I never surrender a low bet, I just laugh at them. Ha ha, what do I care? But uh yeah, if I've got uh four or five or six green chips out there and a situation like that I will surrender it. Now, I always immediately think I've got uh caught a high uh high card, a ten, on my first card, and your high cards are almost always ten. When you think of it, the 22 high cards, 16 of them are tens, though only six are non-tens. So most of the time your high card is a ten. Uh I catch that second bad card, and then I think uh, well, it's uh not over yet. Let's see what the dealer gets. And then not only do I see what the dealer gets, I see the way the cards are running. Now, if low cards are running at that point, I've still got a good chance of making a good hand out of it. So it's not panic time. It's disappointment time, but not panic time. And it's only one high bet. And uh remember we're going to may be making five or six high bets per shoe. So uh, and those disappointing situations do come up. Uh well we wish everything were absolutely ideal and perfect, but it isn't. We don't live in a perfect blackjack world. These uh little disappointments do occur, but but not too often, yes. Not necessarily, not necessarily. From the time I get into that game, uh I'm tracking everything and uh I'm in it right then. Uh from the first high bet I like to win my first high bet, always. And uh I'm not crushed if I don't. But uh if I don't win it, bam, down goes a one dollar chip. If uh I win the next couple, fine, I'm right back in it. Uh if I were to lose two substantial high bets in a row, my first two bets, I would uh leave the table. Uh you see, I don't uh uh we in MBJ don't have hard and fast rules, such as uh basic strategy players have. Uh basic strategy, uh, well we got twelve and the dealer shows us three. Oh god, we gotta hit the thirteen. No choice. They do it mindlessly, blindly, and they of course they lose. Here we use judgment at all times. We have guidelines, we have rules, but we use judgment. Yes. Now wait, uh start again at two decibels higher. I would consider that a loss. Yeah, that's a loss. Uh it would have been an out and out loss if I didn't have surrender available, so it's a loss. It's only half a loss, but uh I dn I can't bring myself to tear the chips in half. Uh yes. Uh yes, the difference is in the way I feel about it. I get furious when they don't look, and in the end I discover a good hand is lost to me. If uh no, I prefer where they have those little mirrors and uh take a look or uh the destinica look. They don't look at if they have a ten up, they don't look. But with those little mirrors like they have in uh flamingo, they uh every time they have a ten, they check to see if they have an ace. Uh-huh. Well, you only use lose your original bet uh in that situation. Over in England you lose everything. If you've doubled down or split and doubled up to split, you lose it all. Uh yeah, it's infuriating over in England. Over in England they don't have a whole card. The dealer has no whole card. Well, in Europe, generally. But uh they uh beyond that they play with Las Vegas type rules. Uh downtown Las Vegas type rules. I never go downtown. Do any of you go downtown? Don't go downtown. We have uh such a wonderful situation on uh the script. Unless uh you're uh masochistically inclined, then then it might uh be fun. Anyway, let's talk about third base uh for a moment. We pretty much covered uh first base. And I don't want to take up too much of your time. If uh any of you have any questions on any of this, uh just uh see me later when uh we're about to break up. Uh there's so much material that we have to cover that Alice has to cover. Anyway, third base. Now, third base is a totally different ball game. And uh Alice has told you in the manual how to evaluate a game, identify the type game it is and so forth. Now, I don't do that. I've discussed this with Alice and uh he agreed that it's a sensible approach, my approach. Again, I buy in for uh 12 green chips and 12 red chips. Uh I don't start playing green though, a third base game now. I'm going to play the uh 146 negative progression. I play red chips only until I prove it out. Now, it uh doesn't upset me if I lose 12 red chips, and I do occasionally, not often, not often, because even when I start out with uh my red chips, uh I don't want to get knocked out immediately, so I'll be a little conservative. My very the very first time I lose a red chip, I'll uh bet two red chips and then three red chips. In other words, starting out through my first uh uh uh loss, I'm just going to be betting one, two, three. Then quickly I'm going to get to uh one, uh, three, four, then uh one, four, six. With red. Now, if it proves itself with red, and I want to win a stack of red chips, twelve red chips, uh uh in that uh preferably in that first shoe or something close to it, ten or eleven red chips, then it's a good game. I'm going to go right to green then. And then uh once and now I will uh go at it cautiously in the beginning, again with the green. My first progression will be uh one, two, three with the green. As long as it's working, then I'll uh escalate right up and as quickly as possible, then get into one, four, six. One, four, six is a marvelous progression. Very, very effective. Uh, very, very rewarding. Now, at all times, uh, I'm in addition to following the rules and doing everything by the numbers properly, I'm also keeping a keen track of everything that is happening. I'm observing everything that is happening. I think I'm uh beginning to usurp some of the stuff that Alice is going to uh be telling you. But in any case, uh if I'm uh losing the first bet and uh winning consistently winning the second bet, I'm going to bump the uh second bet up to uh six chips. Why keep it at four if I'm consistently winning? Then I'm losing one, winning six. Oh, what a glorious situation that is. Especially if I'm uh winning every other bet. If I'm winning every other bet, I'm losing every other bet. I'm losing at the one level, winning at the four or five or six level. Oh manna! Oh boy. Yeah, that's that's a glorious time. Now, I strictly adhere to the stop loss. And you all know what that is. It's a movable stop loss. I strictly adhere to that. If I lose my 12 units, I'm out of that game. That's it. Once again, I will violate that stop loss. So if I come to what looks like an excellent double-down situation, I go ahead and double down. Anytime I have uh a good double-down hand, whether it be a hard hand or a soft hand, and the uh all indications are that I'm going to win it, uh I uh then disregard my stop loss. I will go beyond that. Make a bet that would take me beyond my stop loss. That's the only time I violate. Yes. Third base is simply your uh buy-in, twelve units. That's your initial stop loss. You buy in for uh well, of course I told you twelve red and twelve green. Um now as soon as I get into the green, I forget about the red altogether. The green now, those twelve green chips represent my stop loss. If I lose those twelve chips, I'm out. I've that's my stop loss, I'm out of that. If I lose a progression, once I get up to the 146, well I never start out at 146 uh in green. So uh but if I lose that uh 12 units, I'm out. That's it. I've reached my stop loss. And uh, but of course the stop loss goes beyond that. Uh if I have one an additional 11 chips, and now I know I'm getting into uh uh territory that uh that is going to be covered, uh, but if I'm up to 23 uh chips now that's my stop loss, those twenty-three chips. Ellis will tell you when you win that 24th, you set that pile aside, and uh now that's protected. You you've won that. You're now in a game that you can't lose. Uh I'm sorry, Ellis. Okay, uh now uh my stop loss now is back to 12 units. And uh so it's a movable stop loss that goes right along with me. When I win another pile, that uh first pile I won goes off to the side. I'm now in a game that I've won. Uh no matter what happens, when I even if I reach a stop loss, I've won. I've won a pile of 12 chips, $300. Not bad for a few minutes work. Yes.

unknown 24:16

Do you ever change that negative progression to something like advantage tenants?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes. I do change it. We do have an advantage uh uh approach to both first base and third base. Uh generally speaking, for my part, I stick with the uh 146 negative progression. I find that works so effectively. Incidentally, I've been doing this uh for quite a while now. I still practice every day. I consider myself now to be a legitimate expert at the NBJ, but I practice every day. And if uh you have not reached the level of proficiency that I am at, obviously you should be practicing every day. I recommend you practice every day and keep a record of your practice. Uh practice exactly under uh the way you would play in the casino. If you reach a stop loss, put a line right across your sheet. I have a notebook, uh, loose leaf notebook, and I always have a a page marked first base, the next page is third base, and I keep a running total of my um uh my results in practice. And believe me, I'm way, way ahead in my practice. Because this is just an extension of my uh card counting years. I did the same thing all the years I was a card counter. The point I'm getting at is I practice every day. I never let try never to let a single day go by. Yes, uh repeat your question three decibels higher. I don't have my hearing aid. Yes, it does matter. Start at first base, definitely. First base is easier. You can get right into first base and start playing at a winning level. And you can quickly get into third base. It's not difficult to learn, but it does take a great deal more practice. Yes. Yes, Ivan. Oh. Uh is there a marker here, Alison? Oh. Oh, yes, thank you. Okay, I've got a flip chart up here and I've got a pen. So the answer is yes. I could give you an example. I mean, will I give you an example? Okay. Yeah. Uh I keep lined uh paper in my notebook. And I have columns. This column is simply date. And uh over here, and this is uh first base. Can you hear me alright with my back turned? How about can you hear me alright? Okay, I uh indicate the date, uh 10 uh 23. I have a uh daily total and a running total. I don't fill out the running total. This is uh daily and running. Now uh I put in my day um day's results. Win or lose. I don't cheat myself. I I'm not dishonest with myself. If I lose, it's a negative day. Now I'm uh uh I allow 12 chips. I'm starting with uh 12 chips. Now if I'm I'm down to eight chips, I count that uh minus four. Uh that would well, let's see, ten uh twenty-four. If I'm four chips down, I would count it minus four. Uh once uh at first base or at third base, doesn't matter. Now I keep a running total over here on this side. If I'm uh 20, uh say a hundred and two chips uh to the good over here, a hundred and two units to the good, units. I always think in terms of units. Never in money. I don't play money, I play units. You're not emotional when you play with units. Uh then I would when I reach a point where I would normally stop in the casino, I draw a heavy line under that day's results and finish my mark. This would be 98 then, plus 98, and then I would start a new game right down here, at first base or third base. Very simple procedure. Nothing sophisticated about it, but I've got a record like this going back to 1980, all my years as a card canner, and now my time playing MBJ. And I, as I say, I do it every day. I uh have a shoe, a proper shoe. I play one shoe at first base, one shoe at third base, mark my records, do my shuffling. I always shuffle up uh until I'm ready at a moment's notice to pull out the shoe and start practicing. Okay, that that pretty much covers. Yes. Uh now Alice is going to uh cover that. And he can do it vastly better than I can. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Does that represent playing first bass all day?

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Uh n this would yes, yes. And uh this might uh uh uh extend over ten or twelve days of uh playing. Uh that would represent ten or twelve shoes. Each day represents a shoe. And uh to play ten or twelve shoes in the casino would be a heck of a lot before getting knocked out. It happens. Occasionally it happens. But uh when I finally would reach a table departure indication in first base or a stop loss in third base, I just put a heavy double line under it, and then I know I'm starting what amounts to a new game.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

I suppose what I'm kind of asking is suppose you played in the morning and you broke and you didn't play all afternoon and late at night to play, would would this be an entrance for just like a few years?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

No, no, no. I would make I make a separate entry every time I stop playing. If I decide to play two shoes, uh then that would be one entry.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Oh, so that's a shoe entry.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah, each one of these represents a shoe. And uh but if I play twice in the same day, I would just repeat the date. Okay. Yes, but no, I do keep a record as I'm playing, and oh, that's a good uh uh very good question, Ken. Out here I have a remarks column. And uh at the end of each uh uh in the first base system, at the end of each session, I indicate uh uh two uh uh two uh uh no yeah, two red. I use black at home. I use red and black. Two red uh and one black, whatever, whatever is in my record pile for that day. I'm so I know at the beginning of my next session exactly where I stand, table departure-wise. Yes?

unknown 31:53

Uh what about scouting the other day?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Scouting at the no, no. Now that and uh good question, of course at home you can't scout, can you? Uh I have only one si uh six stack shoe. Ed has twelve. Ed does a lot of scouting under his uh under his desk. Uh I question the value. We he's going to find a cable that went bad before, and uh, but in any case, no. Uh and the casinos I move, at third base I move from casino uh from table to table, always looking for a good game. I find I determine whether it's a good game by how I do with the red chips. Now, on the average, it usually takes me four or five tables before I find a really good table. Uh sometimes I find at the first table. Uh usually I have to move to uh from one table to another.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

You don't burn twelve chips on your table.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Red ones, sure. I you stay there that long? Yeah. Uh uh usually I'll know before I even lose uh twelve red chips. If remember if I if I'm I want to win a pile if I'm going to stay there. Now sometimes I uh just uh will uh win lose one bet after another and uh then I think, oh god, am I glad this didn't happen for real. No no, I don't worry about red chips. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

What are your indicators for uh increasing your bet when you look at the five?

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Oh, I win. I've won. I've won two piles. As soon as I've won two piles, now I'm working on a third pile, Ellis will uh uh go over this. Now yeah, now I'm ready to uh to double up on my bet. But Ellis will go over that. Uh yes.

unknown 33:46

Uh December 7th, is that first base or third base?

SPEAKER_00 33:49

First base. Well I played both, actually. I had always have some advanced students. Uh so I I play both. Primarily I'm there for the new students and it's first base. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Yeah, practice, but you do how close is that to the casino play?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

As close to uh reality as I can possibly make it. The only difference between my home practice and actual casino uh play is that I have no table selection at home. That's the only difference. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

What do you do at home when your cards go sour?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Uh I reach a stop loss. Okay, but then stop. I I don't. I just stop, shuffle up, and uh that's it. And start again. Utter a bio X with him or two, and yes. Never. Never. I never do.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

You just try and just let her go.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Right, right. Oh that phenotype. Yes.

unknown 34:47

How many hands do you think on your back?

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Six. Always six, whether it's first base or third base. Always six hands. Yes, Mark.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

As far as uh win rate, are you looking for one pile per shoe or are you not necessarily?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

No, not necessarily. Once I'm uh once I'm in the game, uh I like to win one pile per shoe, and that's what I use as my criteria to enter the game with the red. But once I'm in playing green, uh then I'm playing until I reach a stop loss.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

If you play one shoe on red, you don't win one pile, or you parts a table?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well, if I win ten red chips, I'll stay, yeah. Uh but no, once I'm into the green, uh then I stay until I reach a stop loss. Oh, two-thirds of a pile I'm going to start go to green, yes. Yes. Uh well, as I say, once I've proven it with red, I start playing green. My first progression with green will be one, two, three. Then uh my second will be uh probably uh one, three, uh five. Then as soon as I can, I uh usually on my third progression I'm into one, four, six.

unknown 35:59

How much time? How long is that?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

It takes about ten minutes per shoe. Uh I'm going to get in uh five uh well uh twelve hand twelve hands per s uh per shoe on the average. So uh it's difficult to say. And uh frankly, you don't keep track of time when you're winning. Uh you're all smiles and uh you don't worry about anything else. Yes. Uh one more question. Absolutely, absolutely. First base, I play MBJ, the other hand's all basic strategy. Third base, the first five hands, basic strategy, my hand, uh uh MBJ. Okay, you've been great.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Oh, one more question Okay, well the comparison is easy.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

I'll save that for laugh. That's like dessert. Okay, dessert. I once told my wife that uh marriage is like a long dull meal with the dessert at the beginning. Yeah. She hasn't spoken to me since. Uh which is okay, that has its advantages too. Well, frankly, uh I was a happy camper in the early days of card counting. I d I got into it uh literally back in the 60s. Revere had a strong influence on me. Uh Thorpe did too. I got the Thorpe, uh, beat the dealer, I read that book. I studied that thing for a year before I uh really felt comfortable with it. I hated it. Oh, I hated that book. Uh complicated, difficult, difficult to learn. And uh then I read some inspiring books. The uh Ken Austin, uh uh The Big Player. I had that. Every once in a while I get that out and read it. It only takes uh about two hours to uh read it. It's uh it's not a novel, of course, it's uh his actual experiences, how he got into uh card counting. He met uh Revere. Revere. Uh I never met Revere uh nor uh dealt with him directly, but I know many, many people who did, an irrascible old devil. And uh but his uh ideas were good and I'm uh I have a whole uh library on at home on uh blackjack, mostly of course, uh on uh virtually all on card counting. I have just two manuals uh on MBJ. And a few other uh periodicals and so anyway by uh by 1980 I took a seminar, a three-day seminar on card counting. It was intensive, it covered a lot, and uh it was uh from eight in the morning till six in the evening. The last day ran till eight, and we were actually playing, and I was thrilled with it. And I started playing, I was winning. I already knew how to do card counting. It was a new system, a better system. Uh there are many, many systems of card counting. Do you know they're all the same. Uh that is, they all have one final objective. They tell you when the deck remaining cards are rich in 10 value cards. Regardless of what system you use, that's what it's all about. When the deck and remaining deck is uh rich in tens. When it's rich in tens, it greatly favors the player, whether it be a card counter, basic strategy, or MBJ. It favors us and uh with us it shows up in uh and uh high ratios. So I did well, starting uh in there in uh 80, I did well as a card counter and right through the 80s. I tried to go to the casinos once a month on the average. I was working, still working then as an engineer, and uh I continued to do well through the 80s, but I noticed, I was aware that it was getting more and more difficult, becoming more and more difficult. The difficulty showed up for me in that I found playing at the same relative uh financial level, monetary level, it was taking me longer and longer to win the same amount. Finally, uh by uh the beginning of last year when I heard about this, uh and I received a little cutout from uh the uh newspaper in Philadelphia, a friend of mine cut it out, he knew my interest in blackjack. Uh it said several things, but essentially it said, how would you like, or what if you knew the dealer's whole card 70% of the time? Well, boy, what if I did? Uh that was all it took for me. Uh there was an 800 number. I called, spoke to Alice for the first time, said, send me everything you got, and uh uh send it by courier pigeon. Uh get it here as soon as possible. That was it. I I got the manual, read it. I was just talking to Alice. I was convinced of the uh system, the value of the system. Instantly, I knew how much more effective it would be because I was aware of these things. I was aware of plumping. I never uh thought of uh trying to uh i codify it and put it into a uh system that could be utilized the way Ellis did. So uh how much better is MBJ than uh card counting? Oh, I don't know, uh 500%? Yeah, I I think that would be a fair appraisal. Maybe a thousand percent better? Vastly better. MBJ is vastly better than card counting. Card counting is vastly better than simple basic strategy. Basic strategy is uh better than uh uh four-year-old uh trying to uh make something out of the uh cards. Okay, that's the progression. And uh here it is. Boy, am I grateful and I'm delighted to stand here before you and talk to you. You're a splendid audience. My pleasure. Thank you. Alice. Let me get out of this construction here now.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Well, okay, I I think you can probably see pretty readily why I didn't uh think too hard and long about asking Paul to to join our staff. You know, for the West Coast, we have Paul and and we have Ed, and they are vastly different types of players with relatively the same background. They're both ex-professional, uh card counters. They both saw the problems that were emerging in card counting, and they both latched on to NBJ as the solution to those problems. Now, like myself, Paul is an engineer, he is a by-the-book player. All of us engineers tend to be by the book people types. On the other hand, Ed is an intuitive player. I'm not saying that one is any better than the other, but it gives you both sides of the spectrum because some of you are going to be