SPEAKER_02 0:11

No, applies everywhere but here. Everywhere nowhere else in the world do they have this kind of table selection where you can find good nickel games. They don't have it on the Golf Coast, they don't have it anywhere but here. Sometimes they don't even have it here, you know? But I'm yeah, I'm sitting there writing up in New York and sometimes I forget about Vegas down there in the desert. There's some days that I wished I had, and there's some days that that I had. You know, you're gonna have bad days. Sometimes it's gonna be your fault, sometimes it's gonna be the card's fault, sometimes it's gonna be the fault of conditions. We just aren't all at at some equal par day after day after day. You're gonna have good days and you're gonna have bad days. And getting control of these bad days, getting control of yourself on these bad days is crucially important. You'll see these people that will sit in games with a zombie-like expression on their face, feeling extremely sorry for themselves, and will sit there literally punishing themselves by saying, See, I'm gonna prove that I can't want to bet. I'm gonna prove it again and again and again. This is kind of like this is sick gambling, okay? Not even sick gambling, this is this is sick behavior, but you can fall into it. Each of us can get into that mood and fall into it. Therefore, it is good to set daily limits. I didn't do it that way. I set game limits. I set game limits. And and usually if I was playing under halfway decent conditions, I could only go to so many games before I would find a good one. So particularly when I was playing professionally, I didn't worry about it. If I hit my stop loss in five games in a row, I didn't worry about it. Because I knew from experience, hit I in the sixth one or the seventh one, I'd nail that stop loss right back inside of a couple of shoes in the right game. So I didn't worry about it. But never nevertheless, I'm a little more cautious now because the overall conditions are not as good as they were back then. It's tougher. It's tougher to find good games now than it was back then, I think. Yeah. You mean a soft 17? It's more favorable for you. Every casino in the world thinks it's more favorable for the casino, and and those mathematicians would be correct if the cards are random. They would be correct if the average dealer hand was 18. Okay. But what happens with clumped cards is that it changes the dealer's average hands from about 18 to about 19.2. And clumped cards also re reduces the opportunity of successfully hitting a soft 17 and improving it. In fact, I don't hit a soft 17 myself anywhere as near as much as I used to, because chances are when you do hit it, you're not, if even when you do make it, you're not going to improve it enough to win. That's the problem. Okay? So I'll get a soft 17. I'll never hit a soft 17, for instance, against a seven, or every buck in the world tells you to do. I go for the push. I go for the push. You got a bad hand. A push is as good as you could expect. Go for the push. You know, don't go for a win with a soft 17 against a seven. But I'll also not hit a soft seventeen if if tens are running, okay? Because if tens are you got a soft seventeen, your only chance is if the dealer breaks. So why would you do it if tens are running? Tens the only thing that's going to break the dealer, you know, so just stand on your soft 17. And because 27 doesn't help you, you know. I mean 17 with a 10 in it doesn't help you anymore. You still got 17, right? But now you just took the 10 that'll they they could have saved you. They could have broke the dealer.

unknown 4:50

Yeah, but also put that for the dealer. I mean, what have you got to do?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yeah, yeah. I think that in the casinos that have to hit soft 17, where the rule is they have to hit soft 17 are hurting themselves. I think if they actually forgot about the math and actually counted instances of where it helped them versus where it hurt them, I think they would find it hurts them more than helps them. Only because clumping changes all of those numbers. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

When you're not, they don't.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

I I don't know. I'd have to think about the effect on on clumping one way. I'd have to study that. Uh it may it may have no significance. It may have some significance. Uh I mean I'm not sure that that maybe they they do it for that reason, but nevertheless, I'd have to think about how does that change the order of the cards in the discard shoe? Because that's what controls clumping. So I don't know, maybe it wouldn't make a lot of difference as long as they do it the same way every time. It'd sure scare the hell out of me if they changed, however, and did it one way one time and the other way the other time, because then I would suspect they're putting tens with tens.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Well, this was from table to table, not at the same table. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Boy, I wish there was a la I wish there was a law that they all had to do it the same.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

One thing I noticed that they're doing differently is um blackjack. Some dealers will pick up the blackjack and pay pay those first.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

No. No. No, it just depends on what the dealer's hand is. If the dealer has an Acer a 10, he'll he won't pay off the blackjack until he's done because he's got to find out if he's got a blackjack. Okay. Well, and and I I take that back. In Vegas, if he is a ten up, okay, and he and it's a no-peeking, he will not he will not pay off the blackjack until the hand's over because he could hit blackjack. Okay. But if he if he's beat on the board, he'll pay it off immediately.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

There's another aspect to that that it's not consistent with some casino the casino. In some casinos a if the dealer can't have a blackjack because it's okay. And the fourth player has a blackjack, you're allowed to take care of that fourth player right away and pay off the blackjack. Well, I don't know that you have no control over that. I don't really know that there's anything that you can do about predicting. No. Not necessarily. What if there are two bus hands in here and then a blackjack and then the rest of the hands? Now the blackjack is with the surviving hands.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

If the blackjack is with the surviving hands, it's gonna clump the cards up more because the surviving hands tend to be tens.

SPEAKER_05 9:41

If it's with the uh if the pays it right away and then two people bust out, now it's with the tailhand of the three round and the bust hand of the bust.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah. Right. Right, good point. Good point.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

Why why don't the casinos simply burn a couple of cards between you know, just to to negate our first base strategy? Why don't why don't we just burn a couple of cards between us?

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Well, some of them do like that. Yeah, some some do. In in Atlantic City, it's against the rules. Okay, they they can't, and they've been called on it. In fact, we had one of our players call them on it here, and and the the casino agreed with the player, and they stopped the dealer from from doing that. Uh, but it's not it's not something that you know uh we we want to uh mention out loud because because they could do that, it would and it would goof us off, and I and I suspect that if they went to the the control commission with a with a good story, they could probably fairly easily get permission to do that. But on the other hand, we we represent less than one-tenth of one percent of the player. The more cards they burn, the less action there is. So is it worth it just to worry about their one player? Are they gonna do that? And you know, the Casilla Control Commission, if they ask to do that, it's gonna make them do it across the board. That's a lot of burned cards, it's a lot of hands that aren't played. The more cards they burn, the less hands they play per hour.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

Did they do that to Harvey the Friday?

SPEAKER_05 11:24

Did they do it to Harvey the Friday?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

They that could be. I hadn't heard that, but it could be.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

In Las Vegas, they can do that if they have an option. Or if you look around, you see what's going on all table. Or burn a card now and then go on.

unknown 11:58

Uh you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

What they've done to me in Atlantic City on occasion, although they haven't done it very very recently, is they'll they'll bring over seven dealers and have 'em each burn a card and walk their way, burn a card, walk their way, burn a card, and walk their way. They stuck they have to stop action in the entire pit to do that, you know, but I've had that done to me before.

unknown 12:22

Can you have to see the birds?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah. Yeah. No, I just sit I just sit there and laugh at them and tell them. Oh yeah. Do you have to show them to you? Uh in Atlantic City the rule is they have to. I'm not sure what the rule is here. They don't they don't have to if they don't want to. They're not supposed to.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

You get a glimpse of the whole c of the burn card, it's your good fortune, but uh they're not going to show it to you if you ask.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Even if you ask. Yeah.

unknown 12:51

There are some dealers here that do show you if you ask. A dealer might, but now he's taking a responsibility for which is his liable as far as they could think of.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah. See, here's the problem with it. Here here's the problem with it. If they if they show you the the if the cards are random, it wouldn't make any difference whether you saw the whole card or not. Or the burn card or not. If the cards are random. So as soon as they say and the same thing is true by the way insurance. They've started late insurance up in Hellano City in some place. I don't know if they've started it here. Late insurance simply means that when it's your turn to play, you can then decide to insure all of a sudden. Okay? Yeah, it won't work here because they peak. But the reason for that is what advantage is it for the casino not to do that if the cards are random? So not doing that is an omission that the cards aren't random aren't random, and not showing you the whole card or the burn cards is an admission that the cards aren't random.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Using the the illustration, uh, the other one that you had up here, the partner looked. Can you take us through if you play two uh both partners playing two hands, or maybe one partner playing two hands, how would you feed the other partner? Would just partner one at first and one at third with both playing two.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

All right, let's say I I would just set to together. I'd make sure I had the first base seat covered, okay? Because that's really your your most important seat with with partners to play. So I play these two, and I would play these two. All right. Here's here's one partner, here's the other partner. From there on in, it's just regular, it's just regular blackjack.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Well, in the first place, player, if he has to put up more line, he's feeding his second hand. Does he feed his second hand or does he take his second hand to feed to the how does he feed the hands? What what is he put? Where did he put the big money? I think it's quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Okay, I would put in that case I would put the big money. I would put it here and pa yeah, here, and possibly here. I might not even put it here at all.

unknown 15:06

I can't.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

But I'm gonna watch and see. I yeah, I'm gonna watch and see which one of those is is doing the best. All right. So you don't you know that this is gonna be one big player, but you don't necessarily know until you the game starts, until the game gets going is which one would be the other be the other big player.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

The first base player is feeding his second hand.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah, if the first yeah, he might be. It's it's possible.

unknown 15:36

Not trying to do anything big with it.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

No. He's not feeding and unless this happened to be the big player, he wouldn't be feeding, which would not be good. You'd want to be either this one or this one to be the big player. Right. Right. And then let's say we did it just like this. We made this one a big player. He's feeding this one, whatever it needs. He's got a watch now. But you've got to try this, you know, practice this at home because some you know it's kind it's because now you're playing two hands, you know, and you're trying to think about this one one way, and it you're trying to control this hand with this hand. So it's it's starting to get complex, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

And the last hand breaks the dealer.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

And this guy breaks the dealer, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

And hope no one says it's third base.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah, that's the trouble with with with this arrangement.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Otherwise, if you're only one hand each, you're feeding the first base part.

unknown 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Yeah, you you could do it to the you know, you could leave these seats open, I suppose, if you wanted to, and let the let the other people come into the middle of the game where they can't hurt things as well. In the middle, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure. That's right. It in fact it might even help us if we did that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Like the biggest club downtown has about three decks. What's your comment about where the casinos cut off cards is expected to be.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Well, of course, it's it it's it's really it's really kind of a stupid thing. They should just all cut off in the same place and the what we call that penetration. The less penetration they have, or or the or the the more cards they cut off, let's put it that way, the fewer hands they're gonna deal per hour and the more they're gonna lose. Now they the reason they do it, of course, is so that anyone counting cards uh will not be able to count down to to the end of the shoe and make some heavy plays right at the end of the shoe. As well, if you cut off a quarter of the cards, you have effectively done that by cutting off another quarter isn't isn't going to make that much difference. You know, you've already you've already forwarded the card counter as soon as you cut off a quarter of the cards. All right, not a lot of counters know that, but he's done. He's done for as soon as they do that. So as soon as the card counter, as soon as the dealer moves the cut card up to the middle because she suspects a card counter, she's actually losing money for the casino because now she's going to deal fewer hands per hour. But we will often, particularly up in Atlantic City in the eight-deck game, uh, when the carriage become overclumped, when they become overclumped, we will frequently start counting out loud to get the dealer to move the cut card up. Because all the carriage behind the cut card get shuffled twice and unclump the carriage. So we sort of catch them at their own game. Let me move this up. In in world-class play or blackjack in general, we could say we're real really looking at three different game types. Probably do that a little bigger than I needed to. We're seeing, like, if we were to look at the tens ratio of each round, we're seeing fairly neutral tens ratio. We might see a high tens ratio every now and then, we might see a low tens ratio every now and then, but the important thing is we're not seeing two low ratio rounds in a row. These games used to be very common in the late 70s and the well no these I would say in the 80s, in the 80s, right up through the mid to late 80s. When I played professionally in Atlantic City, this represented about probably 80% of the game types. You could play a three-bet negative progression in that game type and win somewhere around 80% of the games that you played back in those days. That's how I got on to the 146. When I are we turned on, I forgot. Okay. When I uh when I played the 146 back in the 80s, uh I virtually never had a losing day. And I never had a losing trip. In fact, I would be very surprised when I had a losing game. The 146 just it worked in 80% of the games. So if I didn't bother with testing the water, I'd start right in and bet the 146 with with quarters. If I lost a and I always went to the end of the buy-in, too. I went through the entire pile of 12 chips. And if I lost the 12 chips, I didn't worry about it in the least because I knew that I couldn't go more than two or three games at the malls without finding a winning game. And I had no table selection other than the third base seat be empty. I always played third base. Once in a while I played the middle if it was crowded. And it just, you know, I thought, well, this is it, you know, I'm just gonna sit here and do this for the rest of my life because this was this is beautiful. I made a lot of money doing this. A lot of money doing it. But then slowly it started to to change, and when I and I kept Notes too back then and I still had those notes. And it got a little harder. What I was looking for was I was looking to win three thousand dollars per trip. And many times I'd have that done the same afternoon that I got in town. Because real easy in a 146 doesn't take long at all to win $3,000. Particularly if you can get up to double bets or if you get up to two blacks, it happens very, very quickly. But I got to noticing that it was taking longer instead of I'd usually go up one day and come back the next, but then it got to the point where it was going up one day and coming back two days later. And then it got up to the point where it was going one day and coming back three days later. And then I got a little greedy uh when when the Claridge opened their their four-deck game and I started using zero proximity counting. And I revised my $3,000 bogey to $9,000. And uh I think anybody that knows anything at all about taxes would know why I I set the limit at $9,000. And that worked out, they worked out quite well for a while too. In fact, it worked out so well that uh and I was writing articles by then for for Blackjack Confidential, and I didn't know any better, and I gave out this this uh zero proximity counting method in Blackjack Confidential. When I did that, players descended on the place, and we ended up closing down the the four-deck game in in Atlantic City because we were just killing it, and the the clerage went into chapter 11 back in those days. So, but then things, you know, they they started really watching me very, very close. It got to the point that I was known in uh virtually every casino on the strip in Atlantic City. I didn't bother with the marina, there was just no point in in in going out that far because there was plenty of games on the strip that you could win, and you could just, if you didn't like one casino, you could always walk to the next. I used to stay in a place called the The Breakers up at one end of the strip. They have rooms similar to here where they have kitchens and everything. And uh But then one day it it started to get, it started to take more and more days to get this $3,000, started to get harder and harder to do. And then one day I was staying at the Madison house, I remember, right there next to the sands, and I had my first losing trip. And I was, I'll tell you, I was devastated. I was close to suicidal because I thought it was impossible for me to lose. But the casinos had been watching me, and I didn't, you know, I took this as fun and games. They would sit there and sometimes they'd even pull up a chair and sit there. They're trying to figure out what it was that I was doing. All I was doing is watching the the tens flow in the game and hitting accordingly. That's all I used it for, was to decide whether to hit or not to hit. And I I wasn't the least bit concerned about basic strategy in those days. I just didn't play it at all. And you know, I read these books and I listened to these tapes, and I remember reading reading this one where Jerry Patterson said that he killed the casinos at $50 an hour. And I thought, geez, he's he's in a different league than than we're in, you know. I mean, that's lunch money. So uh when I, I'll tell you when I lost the first time, I was so devastated that when I left the Madison house, I got all the way home before I realized that my suitcases were empty. I'd left all my clothes. I had to call the Madison house and tell them to ship me my clothes, which they did. I was I was totally devastated. I just didn't know. See, I had this this fantasy, as it turned out, that I could just do this forever, you know. And I didn't worry about accumulating a lot of money in the bank back then, because because why bother? I could just get more money anytime I wanted to. That's that's the way I saw things back then. Well when I when I lost it, that's when I got into real trouble, because then I went and I I I figured, well, I must have done something wrong. So now I started reading these these books, this basic strategy and this card counting and all of this stuff. So I was bound and determined to become the best card counter in the world, and I did that, and I got to the point, I remember calling Nancy Patterson and I said, How fast can the average person count a deck of cards? And she said, 35 seconds. I was already at 20 seconds at that point, but I decided to go back and practice some more until I could get it down to 13 seconds. Well, I could do this very, very well in the casinos, but what was happening was the game type, the general game type was going from this situation to this kind of a game, which we'll call game type 2. In game type 2, you were seeing like two low ratio rounds in a row. You know, I don't know about card counting, how well it would have done in this in this game type, maybe, maybe, well, I I guess it wouldn't have done too good because it was about half and half at that point in time. Half game type one, half game type two. And I found that the count had almost no relationship whatsoever to wins. In fact, I learned very quickly that when the count went over plus thirty, that you shouldn't bet at all. And I learned that because no book said that, so I didn't know any better. So when the count went over plus thirty, I was always betting two hundred dollars. And I decided, after never winning one of those bets, that that probably wasn't the right thing to do. And that there was some flaw in these books somewhere. So, you know, I started getting kind of suspicious when I would talk to guys like uh Eddie Olson, and I say, you know, Eddie, you know, these I won eleven thousand dollars playing the four deck down here to Claridge, why don't you come down and join me? Oh no, that's impossible. And I found out eventually, these guys don't play casinos. At least they don't play casinos when anybody's watching them. So I began to have a lot of doubts about all of these, all of these people. I had by then every book on card counting there was, and I always thought that the best, besides the original Forp book, uh, which was a little complex, I thought that the b uh the best was uh Lawrence Revere. I like I like Lawrence's Revere a lot. I still use that book a lot because he has a lot of good good tables in it. One thing I'll caution you about Lawrence Revere's book is that early on in the book he made an error. And it's in the table that has to do with how often each hand can come up. In that table, if you look at it closely, you'll find out that he left out blackjacks. And that whole table's off, therefore, you figure you get a blackjack about once out of 21 hands, it's about 5%. So the whole table is off 5%. All the other tables and the rest of the book, that first table is their foundation. So this error magnifies all the way through the book. Nevertheless, some of the tables in it, they didn't use that for the foundation, and those tables are correct. But nevertheless, and it was an unfortunate error, and I don't even know if they know they made it to this day. It took me a while to figure out. I think I was looking for that for that number, how many, how many times you can expect a blackjack when I figured it out that they'd made a mistake. Lawrence Revere's uh Blackjack is a business. Blackjack is a business, yeah. Uh but that's alright. He still had a lot of good things to to teach us all about blackjack. I think one of the most important contributions, by the way, was that Lawrence Revere was was the person that discovered really that aces are actually more favorable to the casino than they are to the to the uh player. There's there's an interesting case going on now up in uh Minnesota where one of the casinos got caught taking aces out of the shoe. And uh the reason it's interesting to me is it's gonna hurt the casino more than it's going to help them. And and the reason is is if you take all the aces out of the shoe, the dealer, the dealer uh will break a lot more than she was. It more than makes up for the your little two and a half percent that you make on blackjacks. But anyway, this dame here, oh well, the end of that story, by the way, is one day my wife came to me and said, you know, you're losing a lot of money on this card counting. You're losing a lot of money in this card counting. Why don't you just go back and play the way you were playing before? And I said they made a whole lot of sense to me, so I did that, threw all the books in a shelf somewhere, and just went back and played the way that I was playing before. The only change that I made in my play is that I watched for these low ratio rounds now, and when I saw one, I suspended the progression, usually just for one bet, and I continued the progression on on the other side of the low ratio area. As soon as I learned that trick, I was right back on the gravy train again. That worked out very well. So, and by that time too, they they weren't watching me anywhere as nearly as close as they had been before. And so I went on my my merry way. That's when I was writing our I was constantly writing articles for Black Jack Confidential and so forth. But then the main game in Atlantic City changed again, and I'll show you how they did these things, by the way, and we got to the type 3 game, which looks something like that. Back in these days, when you would walk into a casino in Atlantic City, there was a dealer at every table of every pit that was open, and almost always all the pits were open. You might see a pit where there was only two games going on and 15 dealers standing there with their hands behind their backs waiting, waiting for a game. And the way that they looked at it is they didn't worry about adjusting the number of of dealers that they had working on the shift to the number of players. They didn't worry about those things because they weren't paying the dealers anyway, they were just paying the dealers minimum wage. The customers were were paying the dealers with their tips. Now the dealers probably didn't like it because when you s when nobody's playing at your table, you're not making any tips, and it's probably pretty boring to stay in there for hours on end. So then the casinos got the idea, well, we're opening too many tables. Let's go. How's it look over there? Okay. All right. This type of game developed. And by the way, this type of game is absolutely impossible to beat with basic strategy or with card counting. The problem with card counting was if the tens came out at the beginning of the shoe, the card counter would go straight into a negative count. So he'd never raise his bet. And then by the time he started going back positive again, there weren't any tens left. So he would just get killed. It just didn't work at all. And the other thing that went bad, if they were anywhere else in the shoe, he'd had this huge positive count going on in this portion of the shoe. Then when he got over here, he just sit there and push with 20 with the dealer. So the the card counter was totally defeated, and the basic strategy player was totally defeated. Because when you think about basic strategy, basic strategy players don't hit and low ratio rounds. Through this portion of the shoe, the dealer is simply never going to break. By the way, up in these days, the dealer did break about 28% of the time. And when you got down into here, the dealer broke a little less. And when you get when you got down into here, that's when you started seeing dealers go through and higher eight-deck shoes without breaking at all. They just couldn't break in the low ratio, and in the high ratio, they couldn't break because they never hit a hit. So this became a very tough game to beat. And I got involved in in Target, and what you were trying to do really with Target is avoid these games and find these games. That's what Target was really doing. And that actually worked pretty darn good in Atlantic City back in those days. But the casinos, they were getting smarter too. They realized that as they closed tables, the table take rate went up and their expenses went down. So they started doing it more and more, and they found that the more they did it, the more the table take rate went up. So they got some mathematicians to study all of these situations. And they learned that the seven-player game, for all practical purposes, was unbeatable. If it had been played for any length of time, it would quickly become unbeatable. And so they said that's the answer. We've just got to force seven-player games. And they started doing, they hadn't done it, by the way, in Las Vegas yet at all during those days. But they had done it in Atlantic City. And some of the casinos do it virtually perfectly. Some of the casinos, like the Clarids, the other ninth, will come over and shut your game down right in the middle of the game if you have a three or four-player game going on. They'll just shut it down. Uh and they won't let you play that way. So they did that to other to us the other night. We were playing black chips. We just came over and shut the game down. Uh this game I found the only way to beat it was to play just like the dealer was playing. And that's what I'd do. I'd play like the dealer was playing, and I would revert to basic strategy. I'd just watch the tens, and when I didn't see any tens, I'd play dealer strategy. And if you remember, back when I wrote the NBJ manual, I I didn't I uh I talked about high ratio rounds and low ratio rounds. I didn't talk about neutral rounds at all. And that's because Atlantic City, you didn't see any neutral rounds. There were no neutral rounds. They were either high ratio or they were low ratio. You were either looking at 50% tens or more, or you were looking at no tens at all, all the way through the shoe. So it was really quite easy to play this game and just simply play with your strategy. Go go basic strategy and dealer strategy. And so that's what I did. Now you couldn't win those games as frequently as you could win these games. These games you just virtually always won with a negative possession progression. So that's when I got into advantage betting. Advantage betting, this is an advantage betting game. This is a mixed progression game. You can use advantage betting in this game quite successfully, or you can mix progressions in this game. This game, you've got to play a progression. That's the way to play this game. What you're looking at is you're looking at the distribution of the tens ratio evolving from a very good, thorough distribution of tens throughout the shoe to a clumped distribution of tens throughout the shoe through a situation where there's only one or two high card areas in the shoe. And by the way, in some shoes there'll just be one high card area. In other shoes there'll be two, just depending on where the dealer or the player puts the cut card. If you have to put the cut card in the middle of the high ratio area, you're going to end up with two high ratio areas in that shoe. For instance, both the $7,200 game a couple months ago and the $8,000 game last month were this type of game. Both of those were in the high stakes pit at the tie. So you in other words, you can't escape that type of game by going to the high stakes pit. You're going to get that type of game in the high stakes pit as well, as long as they have sufficient players in the casino where they can get the player number up. So in other words, they're not going to have to get the player number all the way up to seven. Four players can do this if they if they sit there long enough, or five players can do it if they sit there long enough. So this is working fairly well for the casinos, even in the high-stakes areas. So what generally happens is in the high-stakes area, you'll get this kind of a game during the day, and you'll get this kind of game at night. So the high-stakes player he goes in and he wins a little money on this type of game in the afternoon. So then he goes to supper, he has a couple scotches, gets his courage up, and says, now I'm going to really kill him. And he walks right into this type of game, plays it the same way he played this type of game, and he can't win a hand. He just can't win a hand. He gets killed. He gets absolutely killed. So this is why the casinos in Atlantic City just just aren't afraid of the any kind of player at all. They'll set an airplane for a card counter in Atlantic City. They know they got the card counters B. You can count out loud in Atlantic City. And it they may not do anything at all. Half of them won't do anything at all. And the other half might move the cut card up. And the only reason they move the cut card off because it's on their list of things to do for the dealer. That's uh that's all it is. They don't really care in Atlantic City. They care here, you know, I was fooling around with the with the dealer the other day. I was playing a no-smoking uh table, and I was killing them on a no-smoking table, and uh I got back late for the start of this one shoe. And I was betting ten dollars, fifty dollars. And so I get back late and I didn't know what was going on, so I bet the ten dollars. Uh Eddie was playing third, I bet the ten dollars, and I blackjacked. Well, every other blackjack I got in the game I've been betting fifty dollars. And the dealer looked at me and she says, You finally screwed up. I said, I just lost the count. So Well we're trying to this is what we're trying to do with our betting. It works out pretty pretty darn good. I like those kinds of games. I like those kinds of games.